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Debt payment by credit creation: Accepted for Value

last updated by And O 1 year, 5 months ago
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    • #4567
      Erick
      Participant

        I posted this in the British Columbia forum, but I think it would be better discussed here:

        I’ve been researching this topic because I’m in a situation where our family’s earnings have been severely limited recently due to several external and internal factors, and I’ve got a few credit card corporations that are going to have to be dealt with one way or another. When reading the Bills of Exchange Act, it appears to indicate that a corporation cannot lawfully send a bill to a living person (hence the use of the various legal fictions) and that the consequence (remedy) if they do is that the bill is paid (or discharged) by them, as long as we know what to do to make them do that, which as far as I comprehend, is the accepted for value process.

        Most information out there about a4v is based on US information, so doesn’t help with the specifics of the exact process in Canada, and specifically for corporate (credit) bills (a lot of the info appears to be about IRS related remittance) but because the laws are essentially the same (UCC & BoE) there is still pertinent information if you can re-interpret it through our laws.

        The gist of what is happening as far as I understand is this: every time a corporation send you a bill, they have to create an account with the amount of the bill in it as a credit. If you pay with debt money then your account gets settled, but because they had to create the credit, you can accept the bill as a “note” by qualified endorsement and instruct them to apply that credit to your debt account instead. What you’re doing is similar to a bank issuing credit as debt and then immediately writing it off, except those steps aren’t necessary as the creditor.

        I have not done my BC perfection yet, but from what I understand it is not strictly necessary for corporate a4v, possibly until there is some kind of court action where you’d have to prove your lawful / political status in order to assert your rights as the creditor, although chances are you’d be taking them to court as the creditor to enforce your rights, not the other way around.

        From discussion in another thread, I think the key to success may be in the enforcement because if we don’t “collect” from them like they do to us, they probably know they can just get away with silence, but that’s an advantage if you want to take it, they accepted your counter-offer. It may just be a matter of sending them a notice with the relevant laws you intend to hold them to along with the a4v bill so that they act immediately and properly… like we do with the birth certificate.

        If anybody has any additional information or experience using a4v, please share! I am attempting to gather as much info as possible before I proceed so I maximize the chance of success, but I will report on any failures as the case may be so others can learn too…

      • #4603
        GuntherBrifort
        Participant

          I am still a little confused by this stuff and as you say often the easy to find path of solutions most often refer to US law so its hard to translate to Can law sometimes. However I like where you are going with this and am interested in your outcome. I feel as though this method for “writing off” debt is a little dubious myself as it seems someone gets screwed that way (although maybe they deserve it as they screwed us but it still feels wrong to me?).
          Personally I kind of feel the right way to deal with debt like this would be to Total up what interest/fees etc you have been charged from their scam and subtract that from money spent and count that as what you owe (if any) and pay just that amount. To me that seems the most honourable (provided you can do it of course or make arrangements for future promissory) way to deal with debt. Also that is assuming someone has to pay something somewhere for the debt or purchases you made. Just my thoughts personally but I still like what you are doing.

        • #4605
          Erick
          Participant

            While I completely understand your mindset towards debt, I have come to understand that money creation in an economy based on debt MUST actually happen by the people as well in order to actually pay down and balance the corporate debt that would otherwise ONLY increase in an economy where debt based money creation ends up with debt interest even when the principle is paid (with all the money ever created), so you essentially end up handing over real assets to pay the bankers for pretending to lend you currency, whereas when we create “fiat” currency by our autograph it is not encumbered by debt and interest and can circulate in the economy to pay off the interest on the other debts, and we aren’t forced into debt as a society.

            The only reason banks are able to create money by fiat is because WE granted them that ability via OUR government (whom used to have that power FROM us) and although it seems like we shouldn’t be able to have that kind of power (because of the years of edu-tainment brainwashing) we actually do as wo/men but have become so disconnected from our true nature that we literally don’t even want to try to even learn about it. As long as we pretend to be our CAPITALIZED names we can only be debtors, but the creditor power of us as Title Case is where this whole process is moving us towards.

            • #4750
              And O
              Participant

                I have done the A4V process on a Tax Debt with the ATO. I received not responses to any of my correspondence and then a while later received a new statement with additional interest.

                The place where I learnt about this say you just need to hold your position and it’s fine, but I had also asked Know Your Rights group about A4V and they’re saying the process doesn’t work in Australia. So I’m not sure who to believe or whether it has worked.

            • #4614
              Erick
              Participant

                I also just wanted to point out that nobody gets screwed in this process from what I gather… There is really fishy stuff already going on in the background of accounts where they get to take this newly minted currency on offer and eventually claim / launder it for themselves as profit, so that’s the only loss you’ll create (and why they aren’t super keen on telling everyone they can pay bills this way) but it wasn’t theirs first, it was legitimately on offer to pay the bill they sent us. They have to do it this way because they aren’t living, so they have no capacity to incur liability the same way we do, they have to put that money in an account (by typing numbers) to print and send that bill, similarly to how a CC company pays for things you buy with your card, it’s not being debited from some big account, it is created as you buy. When we properly endorse the payment coupon, it becomes the instrument that gets “deposited” to balance that account in the double entry system they’re using. It basically moves digits from account to account so that everything gets balanced, similar to the end result of a write-off or discharge but not really the same mechanism at all, you stay in honor. They basically do this dirty trick and get paid off twice if you pay the bill with your labour earnings. No wonder they MAKE so much $$$$$$!! Time for us to MAKE the money and them to EARN it by servicing us.

                This is really one of the fundamental rethinkings that has to happen to break out of the wage slave debt war mentality of the 3D world and into the 5D energy of love, abundance, credit, and harmony that is possible when we don’t limit ourselves as we’ve been taught to do. It’s tricky.

              • #4619
                GuntherBrifort
                Participant

                  Well this is the logical conclusion I come to so let me try and explain (I know they are doing what we could do just create the debt out of thin air but…)

                  So I buy an item lets say a sofa

                  The sofa maker did his labour and materials and his price is $1000

                  If i use a CC they magical make an accounting entry in there books as debt for me (plus interest) and credit the Sofa maker $1000 he gets paid.

                  Now there is a debt owed for the fiat money just created in the system if I don’t pay it who does? the CC company then don’t they get screwed?

                  If I did this myself how is the Sofa guy to get paid? Would I not owe him $1000 and if not why charge anything in the first place if I don’t gotta pay for it?

                  I mean it does not seem honourable to me to go around pretending to pay for shit but not actually pay for it?

                  What would be the point to any monetary system when we just create money out of thin air?

                  Am I making sense?

                • #4639
                  Erick
                  Participant

                    Our current monetary system (past 1933) creates money out of thin air, and nobody cares other than those concerned about currency devaluation. For the purpose of being wage slave labour we’ve been trained for centuries to believe that the only legitimate way for new currency to be created in the economy is to attach it to debt so that it has a promise of future labour (and assets for interest) attached to it. It’s very hard for us to break out of that mentality. It was never designed to be that one-sided in pure debt because traditionally bankers weren’t interested in acquiring real assets, which they are now in the business of doing; there was always meant to be a consumer credit part of the fiat system that enables currency creation as pure credit, not attached to debt so that it can balance the books within the system as a whole. There was supposed to be a balance between corporations making debt and living people making credit, but what they cleverly did is make us all into corporations via the birth certificate so we believe we can’t create credit, and then trick us into creating credit “for them” to extend back to us as a “loan” that we then have to pay them interest on, even though it was our credit that created the currency with our wet signature in the first place, not any lending.

                    Let’s look at the mechanics of the example you gave:

                    So I buy an item lets say a sofa

                    The sofa maker did his labour and materials and his price is $1000

                    If i use a CC they magical make an accounting entry in there books as debt for me (plus interest) and credit the Sofa maker $1000 he gets paid.

                    Now there is a debt owed for the fiat money just created in the system if I don’t pay it who does? the CC company then don’t they get screwed?

                    When the CC company goes to print your statement / bill, first they open another account in your name (fraudulently) and add a credit entry to the account in the amount of your bill, let’s say $1010 or whatever amount is owed. They print up the bill and send it to you, hoping that you’ll give them more of your labour earned money. You can pay with the money in the account that they’re offering by accepting it and returning it properly endorsed so they can deposit it which allows the credit to be applied to your account debt. If you do pay with your earnings, your card account gets paid down but they hold on to the $1010 they had put in that account, it doesn’t go away, and since you didn’t claim it, it’s an abandoned account that they get to reclaim eventually, calling it profit. Banks are also doing this kind of thing with accounts when you withdraw or spend funds, they use the double entry accounting to “copy” all your spending fraudulently and then reclaim it as abandoned for shareholder profit when it should be yours for having lent them your deposits. You have to ask how is it even possible that traditional banks are able have massive profits and dividends with such low interest rates without this kind of internal fraud going on?


                    If I did this myself how is the Sofa guy to get paid? Would I not owe him $1000 and if not why charge anything in the first place if I don’t gotta pay for it?

                    If there were no CC card involved the mechanics would be similar:
                    (however, everyone would need to know more about the Bills of Exchange Act / UCC)

                    the sofa manufacturer would present you with the bill to purchase the sofa.
                    you accept and endorse the bill properly and mark it as a consumer bill (important legal distinction). the sofa manufacturer takes the endorsed bill to their bank and deposits it for the amount of the bill and they get that credit from the bank. that bank that accepted the endorsed consumer bill is then supposed to deposit it with the central bank security account that sends the amount back to the local bank. It’s all connected to your birth certificate account in the background.

                    The central bank was always meant to create currency for us consumers to use to move the economy along properly and balance the debt, but the elite have kept these truths from us for so long that we’ve become conditioned to think that ONLY their chartered banks have this power. The debt fiat dollars we use have signatures of real people that give them value, and the same can be true with other things like bills in exactly the same way in the eyes of commercial law, but only if we are not pretending to be those ALL CAPS corporation names on our birth certificates because otherwise we have none of those rights and powers.

                    In a sense you are correct about “why charge anything in the first place” because there really is no money exchanged at all, just pretend currency digits in accounts. But because we live in a society that came from having real money and then switched to an economy based on pure debt and credit but not really told how it was supposed to work, we’re still all obsessed with money like it’s God when we could be living and freely exchanging voluntarily. Eventually we have to figure out how to operate an economy without money (or currency) at all, because in truth it’s a terrible inefficient waste of resources when analyzed by experts in the banking and accounting field, it really only serves to limit us and our individual creative powers and duties, which in aggregate is a huge loss for society. I’ve had at least 10 different business inspirations that have not been able to manifest in the economy due to a lack of time and energy from being engaged in full time employment and a lack of funds at the same time from the low monetary compensation relative to the nominal living expenses here. Multiply that lost economic potential by the thousands of creative people out there trapped in similar situations, unable to truly do something for the economy other than be a wasted debt slave tax payer.

                    When you say “pretending to pay for shit but not actually pay for it” what you’re really saying is ‘pay for shit, but not actually slave for hours to pay for it’ which seems like it should be theft or fraud, but it is not, the same way banks creating money out of thin air is not counterfeiting, it’s a net benefit, other than the problem of interest when there is no credit generated by consumers. When people sell their homes and get all that newly minted bank currency in their account, do they see it as fraud? It is technically, but we accept it for the benefits to the economy.

                    This was the original system of welfare (but reserved for the elite) before the modern socialist system of government controlled welfare slavery for the purposely uneducated masses “had to be” introduced. We’re like flies in a jar who’s lid has been removed, yet we refuse to escape because we’re so used to the lid being there. I recommend reading “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars” for a bit of a foundation on what has been done to us by the elite misleaders and why.
                    https://odysee.com/SILENT-WEAPONS-FOR-QUIET-WARS-(ARTICLE):a

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